My Neopian Experiment

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Cranberry · #61 Post by **Cranberry** » Sun May 07, 2006 4:34 am

I don't see anyone "attacking" you. All a few of us said was that the experiment's going a lot more quickly and easily than it otherwise would because of the advertising and because people want the mild fame that comes with participating.

But like I said, I still think it's interesting.

Sterl · #62 Post by **Sterl** » Sun May 07, 2006 5:44 am

This is Taelia ^^. I definitely don't think anyone's attacking you. I think it's interesting, whether you announced what you're doing or not. I can't wait to see how it turns out

.

Rachel · #63 Post by **Rachel** » Sun May 07, 2006 8:21 am

i didnt mean to attack you, but it was just an opinion. it would be possible to trade for items a little more expensive without people knowing what you were doing, but it would all take a lot longer than it is taking you.

poohroony · #64 Post by **poohroony** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:12 am

please don't stop the experiment, you're doing a really good job and you have done nothing wrong, you deserve all the benefits you get from this experiment because you were brave enough to try something different.

#65 Post by **Siniri** » Sun May 07, 2006 4:05 pm

I drifted over to this forum from the Altador one and became fascinated by your idea. I don't think people think your experiment is unethical. Those who have traded with you have done so of their own free will... which might include a desire for publicity.
As a scientist, I am curious how it would work with no advertising. So I decided to be a total copycat. I've started two separate trades, each with one item worth, well, one neopoint. So far, I haven't had any offers (I just started last night). If I haven't had any offers within 48 hours, I'll start with something more expensive (10, then 50, then 100np). If people are interested, I can post my progress here -- I'll report only the values of the traded items so that people can't figure out who I am on neopets (my screenname here has no relation to my neopets userid). Once I've reached my goal (I'll make mine a little smaller -- the remaining four pieces of the spooky treasure map), I'll post the details of all the trades.
If you're not interested, then I'll just conduct my experiment to satisfy my own curiosity and keep the results to myself. Either way, thanks for the idea, jrtman, and good luck getting your lab map.

jrtman · #66 Post by **jrtman** » Sun May 07, 2006 7:57 pm

I've heard that the glitch has been fixed so I'm accepting new offers as of now. I'm glad to have things cleared up and will gladly continue with this experiment to the end. I guess a little drama always makes a story better so hopefully it'll give me better a chance for NT publication

I do have a few ideas regarding putting the lab map to good use but will refrain from posting them until this experiment is over.

The current item up for trade is still here.

Historyteller wrote:
neotopia wrote:That's a cool experiment. Of course observation of the experiment affects outcome, but it's the same in quantum physics.

Insert jokes about jrtman's "spin" and "charm" here.

I'll ignore that "spin" part but gladly except the charm comment

EDIT: Are quotes not working?

pipsqueeek · #67 Post by **pipsqueeek** » Sun May 07, 2006 8:06 pm

jrtman wrote:EDIT: Are quotes not working?

9

Think so. Hopefully they get fixed soon

Katy · #68 Post by **Katy** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:23 pm

Siniri wrote:As a scientist, I am curious how it would work with no advertising.

Maybe it's just me, but I think the advertising is part of the point of the experiment: you put the idea out there, and see who responds and how. If you don't tell anyone what you're doing, there's no incentive for anyone to offer something worth slightly more than each trade - it's simple economics.

The whole point of the experiment, it seems to me, is to see what can be accomplished by a lot of people being just a little bit generous. What really throws that off is not advertising, but having a few people in the chain who decide to be very generous. If you want to try it as a purer experiment, the answer isn't avoiding advertisement, it's avoiding trades that are worth significantly more than the current item in the chain.

jrtman · #69 Post by **jrtman** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:57 pm

Katy wrote:
Siniri wrote:As a scientist, I am curious how it would work with no advertising.

Maybe it's just me, but I think the advertising is part of the point of the experiment: you put the idea out there, and see who responds and how. If you don't tell anyone what you're doing, there's no incentive for anyone to offer something worth slightly more than each trade - it's simple economics.

The whole point of the experiment, it seems to me, is to see what can be accomplished by a lot of people being just a little bit generous. What really throws that off is not advertising, but having a few people in the chain who decide to be very generous. If you want to try it as a purer experiment, the answer isn't avoiding advertisement, it's avoiding trades that are worth significantly more than the current item in the chain.

That sums my feelings up exactly, and that is why if someone were to offer me a complete lab map set now, or an item worth double, etc., I wouldn't except.

bgryph · #70 Post by **bgryph** » Mon May 08, 2006 12:34 am

Well, seeing how much you can get through a lot of people being a little generous is an interesting experiment.

But seeing how much you can get via a string of trades without people knowing about it (and therefore deliberately trying to be generous) would be an interesting experiment, too.

As another scientist, I'm looking forward to seeing how they both turn out. :-)

Katy · #71 Post by **Katy** » Mon May 08, 2006 1:37 am

bgryph wrote:But seeing how much you can get via a string of trades without people knowing about it (and therefore deliberately trying to be generous) would be an interesting experiment, too.

I'm not a scientist, but I do understand basic economics:

If you try this without telling anyone what you're doing, it will not work at all. I have one red paperclip in my desk at work, but no one has ever offered me something more valuable for it, because there is absolutely no incentive for them to do so. If I try just leaving the red paperclip out on my desk, what do you think are the odds someone will take it and replace it with something worth more? (Knowing my coworkers, they'd just take it.) The same will go for a cheap item just sitting in trades with no explanation - only with slightly better odds because there aren't silly kids walking around my office and offering random junk in exchange for office supplies (unlike the trading post on neo).

Besides, "deliberately trying to be generous" is the whole point of this experiment. It's about asking people to be just a little bit generous, and watching it grow. At best, putting up a junk trade with no explanation could be the control group for this experiment, but it's not an experiment in and of itself.

What I would be really interested in seeing worked out is the np difference between the value of the items in each trade jrtman has done.

ETA: I think sparking 5 pages of discussion already makes it a very good experiment.

The Wonder Weezel · Mon May 08, 2006 2:18 am

Personally I agree with some of the things other users have said... there is a small glitch in your experiment. If you were really trying to do something similar to the paperclip experiment, leaving it up for trade for people to come to you isn't going to get you the same results... publicity, or people willing to add in on the fun will bid, and thus it really isn't the skill of trading or going up a little by little, its people coming to you because of the advertisement it's had. With the paper clip experiment, he didn't set up a stand in his yard with a sign saying "red paperclip, who has something nicer and is willing to trade" and will trade for a nice vaccum, and then says "I have a vaccuum... who has something nicer that is willing to trade?" For this experiment to work correctly, you need to set out to find people.... not let things lead them to you.... Im not saying you shouldnt advertise, im just saying the idea is to go out, and say "hey, that is something worth more than what i have" or "thats a popular item, and from that, I bet I could trade 2 or 3 times and hit it big afterward!"... but people coming to you with nicer things isn't the same. Its a good plan to get your lab map, no doubt. Congrats if you get there.... im just saying experimentwise.... it doesnt work out. then again, thats my opinion. But the way youve logged it on the pet page is nice.... helps others see how youve progressed... thats nifty!

Cranberry · #73 Post by **Cranberry** » Mon May 08, 2006 2:56 am

Katy wrote:
bgryph wrote:But seeing how much you can get via a string of trades without people knowing about it (and therefore deliberately trying to be generous) would be an interesting experiment, too.

I'm not a scientist, but I do understand basic economics:

If you try this without telling anyone what you're doing, it will not work at all. I have one red paperclip in my desk at work, but no one has ever offered me something more valuable for it, because there is absolutely no incentive for them to do so. If I try just leaving the red paperclip out on my desk, what do you think are the odds someone will take it and replace it with something worth more?

I don't think anyone's suggesting that, either. For the experiment to work like the red paperclip one (at least in its early stages, before it became popular), he'd have to keep an eye on the trades, spot something worth slightly more than his pen, offer on it, and hope the person accepts. Then he'd do the same with that new item. It's not passive -- he's not just sitting around for months waiting for someone to randomly offer him something better -- but it doesn't affect the integrity of the experiment, either.

Right now, he's basically getting other people to do the work for him. He puts the item in trades; a bunch of people come to him and offer; he picks one. If he was really doing it like the red paperclip one, he would be doing the searching and offering.

bgryph · #74 Post by **bgryph** » Mon May 08, 2006 3:58 am

I think my point is that either doing it with or without publicity is a perfectly legitamate and interesting thing to try. They're just doing different things.

:shrug:

atomicblonde · #75 Post by **atomicblonde** » Mon May 08, 2006 4:00 am

Cranberry wrote:Right now, he's basically getting other people to do the work for him. He puts the item in trades; a bunch of people come to him and offer; he picks one. If he was really doing it like the red paperclip one, he would be doing the searching and offering.

I have to agree with Cranberry and TWW on this.

The point of this is not genorosity of others, but the real point of an experiment like this would be to test your luck and trading prowess.