Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:49 am
Okay, so pretty much the next book needs to be released tomorrow or my head will explode.
I took longer than most to read the book, but I didn't want to read it non-stop.
I must say that I wasn't too upset in the last book, and as I was reading Dumbledore's death in this one I didn't think I was that upset. His funeral hit me a bit more, but the strange thing was that after I finished reading the book I was trembling a bit. It was pretty weird.
Obviously, J.K Rowling has two choices: Harry lives, or he dies. Either he kills Voldemort and lives happily with his friends and Ginny, or he dies willingly and realizes that he will be with his parents, Dumbledore, Sirius (although I still don't think Sirius is dead...).
I'm hoping for ressurections of those two (or, of just Dumbledore as I don't think Sirius ever really died), but at the same time I know that a lot of people will think that it cheapens the death of the characters. And I know a lot of people want Harry to die, but I think this tale should have a happy, non-death, ending.
The thought of Harry being the 7th Horcrux never really came to me. I knew that since it was never confirmed that it was an artifact of the two remaining founders, it probably was safe to assume that it wasn't one of them. I actually thought that the 7th one would be whatever was in the basin. And I spent a good few minutes trying to figure out who R.A.B was, but I thought Regulus pretty quickly.
I thought it was pretty much implied that Dumbledore's hand was burnt from destroying the ring. I didn't really think that people would think it was something else. I also was first confused at Dumbledore's apparant begging for his life, but started to think that maybe he was begging for his death, and was glad that I was not the only one. And I'm positive Snape is not truly evil. It's way too obvious.
I don't know how I feel about them not returning to the school in book 7. I just can't see the book not in that setting.
Great book all in all. I'm happy I'm not the only one who thought it was different from the other books in the sense that the major crisis was not really known until the end. My 2nd favourite book, though (Book one will always be number 1).
I took longer than most to read the book, but I didn't want to read it non-stop.
I must say that I wasn't too upset in the last book, and as I was reading Dumbledore's death in this one I didn't think I was that upset. His funeral hit me a bit more, but the strange thing was that after I finished reading the book I was trembling a bit. It was pretty weird.
Obviously, J.K Rowling has two choices: Harry lives, or he dies. Either he kills Voldemort and lives happily with his friends and Ginny, or he dies willingly and realizes that he will be with his parents, Dumbledore, Sirius (although I still don't think Sirius is dead...).
I'm hoping for ressurections of those two (or, of just Dumbledore as I don't think Sirius ever really died), but at the same time I know that a lot of people will think that it cheapens the death of the characters. And I know a lot of people want Harry to die, but I think this tale should have a happy, non-death, ending.
The thought of Harry being the 7th Horcrux never really came to me. I knew that since it was never confirmed that it was an artifact of the two remaining founders, it probably was safe to assume that it wasn't one of them. I actually thought that the 7th one would be whatever was in the basin. And I spent a good few minutes trying to figure out who R.A.B was, but I thought Regulus pretty quickly.
I thought it was pretty much implied that Dumbledore's hand was burnt from destroying the ring. I didn't really think that people would think it was something else. I also was first confused at Dumbledore's apparant begging for his life, but started to think that maybe he was begging for his death, and was glad that I was not the only one. And I'm positive Snape is not truly evil. It's way too obvious.
I don't know how I feel about them not returning to the school in book 7. I just can't see the book not in that setting.
Great book all in all. I'm happy I'm not the only one who thought it was different from the other books in the sense that the major crisis was not really known until the end. My 2nd favourite book, though (Book one will always be number 1).
Last edited by Moogum on Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:11 am
Fiddelysquat wrote:Setekh wrote:why would he want to destroy his own horcrux?
simple.
aslong as harry lives, so will he, he. and he alone. can kill harry -propercy has told us this- and harry alone can stop Voldermort.
for harry to kill Voldermort, harry must die.
leading to the unique situation where Voldemort is totally, and unirevicably unstoppable, unless harry and voldy both die simeltaneously.
a damned good plan dontchya thing
edit:i shall note that i came to this conclusion through my own obsessive desire for immortality.
take that as you will.
That's an incredibly good point, Setekh! If Voldemort DID encase a bit of his soul in Harry, Harry would have to die in order for Voldemort to die. Naturally, a sociopath like Voldemort wouldn't be able to comprehend someone giving up their own life to save others.
The prophecy says that Neither can live while the other survives, right?
Well if Harry was a horcrux, then even if he killed Voldemort, he'd still be notionally 'alive'.
So Voldemort can live while Harry survives, so Harry being a horcrux would make the prophecy wrong.
Surely.
Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:19 pm
I don't like the idea of Harry being the Horcrux. I just don't think it would work into the story well, with the profecy and what not.
I agree that it is probably something in the school. When I first saw that I said "Well, I'm 99% sure we have already seen it, wether it was briefly or not. And it is in the school somewhere." If JK does that, it will give Harry and them a reason to go back to the school in book 7 too, which I know quite a few people would like to see happen.
Sapphire Faerie wrote:It was never confirmed that the last horcrux was definately something of Gryffindor's or Ravenclaw's. Didn't they just say it would probably be?
Somehow I get the feeling that the last horcrux is something totally unexpected. I get the strange feeling it might be something hidden at Hogwarts. Maybe Tom didn't go back to the castle to find something to make into a horcrux, but to plant one. He loved the school, remember?
The theory of Harry being the horcrux is a very interesting one indeed. It really is just the sort of thing J.K. would do. And it would also mean Harry would have to die in the end. Which I would love. Nothing against him, but I think it would work out great if both Harry and Voldemort end up dead at the end of book 7.
Also, I was reading in some article last night that we're supposed to learn more about Harry's connection with Voldemort in book 7. So maybe it is something like that. Maybe he is a horcrux, which would explain why he can see through Voldemort's eyes and all that.
I agree that it is probably something in the school. When I first saw that I said "Well, I'm 99% sure we have already seen it, wether it was briefly or not. And it is in the school somewhere." If JK does that, it will give Harry and them a reason to go back to the school in book 7 too, which I know quite a few people would like to see happen.
Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:39 pm
Igg wrote:Fiddelysquat wrote:Setekh wrote:why would he want to destroy his own horcrux?
simple.
aslong as harry lives, so will he, he. and he alone. can kill harry -propercy has told us this- and harry alone can stop Voldermort.
for harry to kill Voldermort, harry must die.
leading to the unique situation where Voldemort is totally, and unirevicably unstoppable, unless harry and voldy both die simeltaneously.
a damned good plan dontchya thing
edit:i shall note that i came to this conclusion through my own obsessive desire for immortality.
take that as you will.
That's an incredibly good point, Setekh! If Voldemort DID encase a bit of his soul in Harry, Harry would have to die in order for Voldemort to die. Naturally, a sociopath like Voldemort wouldn't be able to comprehend someone giving up their own life to save others.
The prophecy says that Neither can live while the other survives, right?
Well if Harry was a horcrux, then even if he killed Voldemort, he'd still be notionally 'alive'.
So Voldemort can live while Harry survives, so Harry being a horcrux would make the prophecy wrong.
Surely.
thing with Propercys is there is quite a bit of wiggle room and interpritation to them.
i think the "neither can live while the other survives" thing means that so long as one of them lives, the other will not find rest.
and there is always a way around prophercy.
Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:41 pm
I tend to think that Voldemort's trying to kill Harry suggests that he's not a Horcrux.
My thought was that the fact that Harry was going to be murdered as part of making a Horcrux, and survived, gives him some sort of connection to them. Notice that when Dumbedore, who is much more powerful than Harry, destroyed a Horcrux, he was badly burned, and maybe suffered other long-term effects we don't know about. Harry destroyed one with no difficulties whatsoever.
So I'm thinking that only Harry can destroy the Horcruxes (or at least, do it without ill effect) because of this connection.
My pet theory -- which, naturally, is unlikely to be right -- is that after Harry breaks Voldemort's immortality by destroying all the Horcruxes, Snape will be the one who actually kills Voldemort. I'm of the "Snape's not evil" camp, and the only other thing I can think of that he can do at this point dramatic enough to prove it would be to die saving Harry, and that seems so trite.
(Well, that and I don't want Snape to die, though sadly I think it's almost inevitable at this point... although not as inevitable as Dumbledore's death was.)
My thought was that the fact that Harry was going to be murdered as part of making a Horcrux, and survived, gives him some sort of connection to them. Notice that when Dumbedore, who is much more powerful than Harry, destroyed a Horcrux, he was badly burned, and maybe suffered other long-term effects we don't know about. Harry destroyed one with no difficulties whatsoever.
So I'm thinking that only Harry can destroy the Horcruxes (or at least, do it without ill effect) because of this connection.
My pet theory -- which, naturally, is unlikely to be right -- is that after Harry breaks Voldemort's immortality by destroying all the Horcruxes, Snape will be the one who actually kills Voldemort. I'm of the "Snape's not evil" camp, and the only other thing I can think of that he can do at this point dramatic enough to prove it would be to die saving Harry, and that seems so trite.
(Well, that and I don't want Snape to die, though sadly I think it's almost inevitable at this point... although not as inevitable as Dumbledore's death was.)
Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:43 pm
Since Dumbledore destroyed the ring, I don't think that only Harry can destroy the Horcruxes.
Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:15 pm
I haven't read the whole book yet, only on page 500 something, but I have a question-
How do you make something your horcrux? I know you have to kill somebody to break your soul and etc., but how do you put your soul into an object? If the object is alive, can it be done without it knowing?
I have a theory, trying to see if it would make sense.
How do you make something your horcrux? I know you have to kill somebody to break your soul and etc., but how do you put your soul into an object? If the object is alive, can it be done without it knowing?
I have a theory, trying to see if it would make sense.
Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:31 pm
Bangel wrote:I haven't read the whole book yet, only on page 500 something, but I have a question-
How do you make something your horcrux? I know you have to kill somebody to break your soul and etc., but how do you put your soul into an object? If the object is alive, can it be done without it knowing?
I have a theory, trying to see if it would make sense.
I don't think it really said, sure you have to destory the object but it really just says what a horcrux is.
I have another theory about this book. Maybe Snape is really not truly evil, just really, would you do what Voldermort says if he would kill you? But as he got Defense Against the Dark Arts job, it kind of leans he is bad. Dumbledore dieing was horrible, he needs to be there in the end as a ghost if anything. I really hope him and Sirius are still alive. I know his parents are dead for good though. I don't care about Cedric, he just made the book better by dieing but it was still sad but not as much. Sirius is probably trapped behind that wall, maybe he is a ghost but it said Harry still thought he heard Sirius. Tonks will most likely fall in love with Lupin but that doesn't mean much I think. They should go back to Hogwarts at least for a bit then leave. I doubt Hargrid would be in it then since he said he was staying there. J.K. Rowling plans to start writing the next book by the end of the year. Can't she just right as fast as she did for book 1-4? They all took less then a year to come out, maybe two for forth, but second and third came out months apart. The next book will be good.
Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:46 pm
Had a mini-brainwave.
In PoA, when Harry has the flashbacks of his parent's death, Lily is called a "silly girl" by Voldie whilst protecting Harry.
Hermione's been reffered to as a "silly girl" lots of times, by Rita Skeeter and also by Snape.
We know they were both good at Charms (Hermione got something like 112% on a Charms test, and it's been mentioned lots of times about Lily being good at Charms), and good at potions (Slughorn says lots of times that Lily had a natural ability, and it's been mentioned/hinted lots of times that Hermione is quite good), so they were probably both clever. Charms and Potions lead me to think that perhaps Lily was good at logic, like Hermione.
So, what if Hermione dies whilst trying to protect Harry?
Oooh, the conspiracy!
*sorry if this doesn't make much sense, I'm tired
*
In PoA, when Harry has the flashbacks of his parent's death, Lily is called a "silly girl" by Voldie whilst protecting Harry.
Hermione's been reffered to as a "silly girl" lots of times, by Rita Skeeter and also by Snape.
We know they were both good at Charms (Hermione got something like 112% on a Charms test, and it's been mentioned lots of times about Lily being good at Charms), and good at potions (Slughorn says lots of times that Lily had a natural ability, and it's been mentioned/hinted lots of times that Hermione is quite good), so they were probably both clever. Charms and Potions lead me to think that perhaps Lily was good at logic, like Hermione.
So, what if Hermione dies whilst trying to protect Harry?
Oooh, the conspiracy!
*sorry if this doesn't make much sense, I'm tired
*
Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:33 pm
Bangel wrote:I haven't read the whole book yet, only on page 500 something, but I have a question-
How do you make something your horcrux? I know you have to kill somebody to break your soul and etc., but how do you put your soul into an object? If the object is alive, can it be done without it knowing?
I have a theory, trying to see if it would make sense.
What they told us about making one, they told us indirectly. Slughorn said it required an incantation, and Dumbledore called it a "process" to make one.
Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:58 pm
jellyoflight wrote:Had a mini-brainwave.
In PoA, when Harry has the flashbacks of his parent's death, Lily is called a "silly girl" by Voldie whilst protecting Harry.
Hermione's been reffered to as a "silly girl" lots of times, by Rita Skeeter and also by Snape.
We know they were both good at Charms (Hermione got something like 112% on a Charms test, and it's been mentioned lots of times about Lily being good at Charms), and good at potions (Slughorn says lots of times that Lily had a natural ability, and it's been mentioned/hinted lots of times that Hermione is quite good), so they were probably both clever. Charms and Potions lead me to think that perhaps Lily was good at logic, like Hermione.
So, what if Hermione dies whilst trying to protect Harry?
Oooh, the conspiracy!
*sorry if this doesn't make much sense, I'm tired
Nice theory, but it seems a bit -too- far-fetched to me =X
Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:08 pm
Robert wrote:I don't like the idea of Harry being the Horcrux. I just don't think it would work into the story well, with the profecy and what not.Sapphire Faerie wrote:It was never confirmed that the last horcrux was definately something of Gryffindor's or Ravenclaw's. Didn't they just say it would probably be?
Somehow I get the feeling that the last horcrux is something totally unexpected. I get the strange feeling it might be something hidden at Hogwarts. Maybe Tom didn't go back to the castle to find something to make into a horcrux, but to plant one. He loved the school, remember?
The theory of Harry being the horcrux is a very interesting one indeed. It really is just the sort of thing J.K. would do. And it would also mean Harry would have to die in the end. Which I would love. Nothing against him, but I think it would work out great if both Harry and Voldemort end up dead at the end of book 7.
Also, I was reading in some article last night that we're supposed to learn more about Harry's connection with Voldemort in book 7. So maybe it is something like that. Maybe he is a horcrux, which would explain why he can see through Voldemort's eyes and all that.
I agree that it is probably something in the school. When I first saw that I said "Well, I'm 99% sure we have already seen it, wether it was briefly or not. And it is in the school somewhere." If JK does that, it will give Harry and them a reason to go back to the school in book 7 too, which I know quite a few people would like to see happen.
Just thought of something else:
From Chapter 23, Horcruxes, page 505 of the American edition:
"...Four objects from the four founders would, I am sure, have exerted a powerfull pull over Voldemort's imagination. I cannot answer for for whether he ever managed to find anything of Ravenclaw's. I am, however, confident, that the only remaining relic of Gryffindor remains safe."
Dumbledore pointed his blackened fingers to the wall behind him, where a ruby-encrusted sword reposed within a glass case.
What about the sorting hat? That was Godric Gryffindor's too.
Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:14 pm
gaterion wrote:Since Dumbledore destroyed the ring, I don't think that only Harry can destroy the Horcruxes.
Well, yeah, but Dumbledore was permanently injured by it and Harry wasn't.
Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:25 pm
bgryph wrote:gaterion wrote:Since Dumbledore destroyed the ring, I don't think that only Harry can destroy the Horcruxes.
Well, yeah, but Dumbledore was permanently injured by it and Harry wasn't.
Because the ring had a curse on it while the diary didn't.
Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:36 pm
Fiddelysquat wrote:I KNOW WHO IT IS!
It's Sirius Black's brother! The initials all fit! Remember? His name started with an "R", the "A" is prolly his middle name, and "B" for Black! He called him the Dark Lord which means he was in his service at some point. Only followers call him that. We know he wanted to back out but Voldemort wouldn't let him, so I can see him hating Voldemort for that!
That's exactly what I thought when I read the book.
Anyway, I finished Sunday night. I cried. I loved Dumbledore. I HATE YOU, JKR.
Not really. Anyway I correctly guessed who the HBP was. I liked most of the book and the funeral was brilliant. I love the fact that he's going to Godric's Hollow. I always wanted him to go there.
Oh yeah, I love Malfoy. Hate Snape. I hope he dies a slow and painful death or gets blown into little pieces. I don't care if he wasn't a traitor. He doesn't deserve a third chance. Then again I have this really slight hope that he might not be a traitor.
I really really want to know why Dumbledore trusted Snape. I refuse to believe it was because he was sorry about Lily & James. That's a stupid reason and I highly doubt a clever man such as Dumbledore would have bought that one. However, he was bit foolish at times. *shrugs*
I don't like the idea of Harry being a Horcrux. I'd go for the idea of Ginny being one. Rowling's evil like that but I'm not sure if it'd be possible. I also think there might be one in the Chamber or somewhere else at Hogwarts. It'd make sense.
bgryph-You said Harry destroyed a Horcrux and was not harmed, but Ginny also touched it and she wasn't harmed. If Voldemort wanted Lucius to sneak the Horcrux into the school before his downfall he wouldn't have put a curse on it would he?
I don't know what else to say. I'm really tired since I just got back from a trip but I'll post some more stuff later. I'm sure I had a couple of questions.