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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:16 pm 
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Slime Lord wrote:
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Anyone has the option to restock. If you want to earn more np, that's what you have to do, because playing games doesn't offer anywhere near the same amount of revenue. Don't condemn the people who DO do it, there's nothing wrong with it. It sounds to me like you're saying "It's hard for me to earn lots of np because I only play games and the stock market, so I don't want anyone else to earn lots of np either." Sour grapes, anyone?


Your quiet wrong on this one. I'm quiet content earing my 10-15k a day playing games alone. I was quiet content before Restockers, like your self, decided you all would go with the people who want to raise prices (and of course succed and because Price Gauging.) on the smallest of items, such as a Milk Chocolate Techo that was selling for under 500NP just three months ago and suddenly is in the thousands, along with dozens and dozens of other items. But this dosen't effect you since your the one doing it, and can afford it, while we players are effected the most.


You're the one who's quite wrong this time. I'm not a restocker. I don't have the patience for it. I would love to learn, because earning 100k per day sounds a lot better than my usual paltry 10k from games. Maybe someday I'll force myself to sit down and practice it. Right now, it would be putting forth more effort that I currently feel like spending on a GAME.

But I have nothing bad to say about people who DO restock. I think it's great that they have mastered the skill it takes to be successful at it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:17 pm 
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I'm most glad you play games. I truely am. I don't like the people who ONLY restock. If you wish to consider your self for this topic a sub-type, do so.

And I do know the Neopian Economy isn't set just for me. This is not why I started this topic, even though I am expressing my personal oppion. I started this topic so people might see how much of an effect the prices they are setting are having on the people who only play games.

I know Restocking is hard. I know Autobuyers are out there. I know they are a decent portion of the ones who set prices, but it's everyone else who is following it that I'm having issues with.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:30 pm 
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Slime Lord wrote:
I'm most glad you play games. I truely am. I don't like the people who ONLY restock. If you wish to consider your self for this topic a sub-type, do so.

And I do know the Neopian Economy isn't set just for me. This is not why I started this topic, even though I am expressing my personal oppion. I started this topic so people might see how much of an effect the prices they are setting are having on the people who only play games.

I know Restocking is hard. I know Autobuyers are out there. I know they are a decent portion of the ones who set prices, but it's everyone else who is following it that I'm having issues with.


So, you have an issue with me and other people who price what they restock at the current market value?
I looked through the wiz when I first began restocking, and I priced my items at the lowest on the wiz, or close to it.
I know my prices are fair.
There's a huge difference between buying things and inflating them, and selling something for what it's worth. No one has the authority, and shouldn't have the nerve, to say that I'm "Wrong" for pricing my items the right way. I don't understand the logic in underselling items just because it's unfair for other players.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:33 pm 
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Slime,
Sometimes I feel like you do - frustrated by aspects of this game that favor certain types of players. You can spend 2-3 hours on games, only to find that you've made as much as some players do restocking just one item. Some days you're able to just get past the fact that you can't make as many NPs as others do - other days it just irritates you so bad that you want to quit. I'm speaking for myself here as I don't claim to know what's going thru your head right now, but I imagine that a lot of players share these same feelings.

Neopets, as a game, can be a very fickle thing - the players and the additions by TNT making it very dynamic. As such, there will be lulls - sometimes I find I can restock fairly well and make money easily, other days it feels as if making just 10k on games is a huge task. I don't know if it was the Jazzmosis Ticket thing that pushed you to the point of making this public, but I do know that there will always be aspects of this game that will push some people on certain days beyond a threshold of what they can accept. It might sound cliche, but sometimes remembering that this is just a game is one of the hardest parts of this game. Might I suggest taking a few days to get your mind off Neopets then come back and see if the same things still bother you as much. Right now I'm on a partial break myself, as a few things on the site have started to get to me as well.

Just my 2 cents...


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:16 am 
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Glad to see someone thinks the way I do. There has only been one morep erson besides your self on this thread who has agreed with me on most of the things.

It's a shame everyone forgets this is a game, and games are meant to be fun for your self and your fellow players. But it isn't anymore because people well...a :evil:


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:18 am 
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Put simply: if you don't like the prices, don't do the quests. You don't need to do the quests any more than restockers need to "gouge" prices. Just lay low and let things decay into their natural order.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:28 am 
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As a former (mediocre) restocker and flash game player, I do agree with what you have to say about this. But as already mentioned, you really can't do anything about the situation when the demand for the items is higher than the supply. I only have a problem with restockers if they bicker about being banned from the shops. For instance, flash game players are limited to three score submissions per game every day and stockholders can only purchase a set number of stocks per day, so this is only fair.

I also know that I can eventually make MORE money with LESS time than the average restocker, just by knowing how the items work in this game. Learning when to buy certain items and knowing when the best time to sell them has really helped me a lot. I actually haven't restocked since my account was four months old, and am glad that I no longer have to do so. My advice is to take complete advantage of a situation when opportunity knocks...

You should really think about your needs and wants when you are playing this game. Is it absolutely necessary to buy codestones to train your pets? Or paint brushes? Nerkmids? Do you have to do these quests, or do you just have a passion for completing quests? Cover your basic needs (foods, toys, etc. for your pet, a nice neohome, good shop, etc.), and try to look past it. That's what I do, and I'm glad with what I have. You'll enjoy the game much more this way. If it's out of your control, find something else that you like to do. Don't let it get under your skin.

It's easy for people to think that the act of restocking is easy, but I'm going to have to go with the restockers on this one and say that it isn't easy. You wait at a shop and refresh the page often until a restock comes up. Then there is a chance that you won't be able to restock anything good. Personally, I think that it is very boring to do. I would rather play a couple of flash games and try for a new personal high score than to restock little or no items from a shop.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:40 am 
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Slime Lord wrote:
I'm most glad you play games. I truely am. I don't like the people who ONLY restock. If you wish to consider your self for this topic a sub-type, do so.

And I do know the Neopian Economy isn't set just for me. This is not why I started this topic, even though I am expressing my personal oppion. I started this topic so people might see how much of an effect the prices they are setting are having on the people who only play games.

I know Restocking is hard. I know Autobuyers are out there. I know they are a decent portion of the ones who set prices, but it's everyone else who is following it that I'm having issues with.


I dont understand... I am purely a restocker and dont understand what the problem is. We are here to make profit on the stuff we get to buy the things we like. Some items are hard to get and therefore we charge more...thats just the way things go. And if the quest is too expensive dont do it there will be an affordable one eventually


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:41 am 
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Slime Lord wrote:
It's a shame everyone forgets this is a game, and games are meant to be fun for your self and your fellow players. But it isn't anymore because people well...a :evil:


and as its a game, they have every right to do things the way they want, provided they stick to the rules.
and yet you suggest... neutering the restockers (of which i used to be)
i earned the paltry 200k to buy my krawk (way back when)
i earned my 300k to buy the tyranian paint brush.
i did that through restocking items, then consolodating my position by buying other items cheap.
it took me nigh on four years to get the pets i wanted (mutant buzz, desert lupe and tyranian krawk)
are you really trying to suggest, that because i restocked to get it, that i should be ashamed of them?
it is just a game you know.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:06 am 
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Personally, I have no problem with restockers. I've toyed with it myself and I personally suck at it, and find it boring to boot. (I wish I liked restocking -- my connection is fast enough to support it.)

I just wish that the game were better balanced, to place less emphasis on restocking as a way of earning NP. I think there's no question that the big money goes to the restockers, and that there's no way to earn anything remotely comparable playing games, for example.

What I'd really like is to see TNT take some more steps to control inflation and provide a better balance between restockers and the other players of the game. Sometimes it seems like the only way to get ahead in Neopets is by restocking, and I don't like that. In a game as huge and multi-faceted as Neopets, there should be more than one way to play the game well.

I also wish TNT would more careful with their selection of ways to get avatars. Avatar items predictably inflate. I don't care much if the price of random items like bags of peanuts or even concert tickets shoot up -- it keeps life interesting, and how many people really need a bag of peanuts except for the avatar anyway? (Although it sucks for anyone with a peanut gallery, of course.) But when items that have important uses on the site, like paintbrushes or morphing potions shoot up, then the game becomes a lot harder to play generally, for people who don't want to play the avatar-collection game and just want a pretty Island-color pet. That I wish TNT would stop doing.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:16 am 
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shouldve bought the item before the prices shot up if you want it cheap.
i have a darigan gallery.
i have all the items under 100k.
i have several plushies at 100-odd K then a BIG gap, as we enter hidden tower territory, then a muchos grandiose gap as we enter "two in existance" continent.
do i complain?
frequently.
do i seriously suggest that these R99 items should be mad six or seven rarities lower?
nope.
i lump it, because inspite of my inability to restock inspite of Broadband, inspite of the fact that my best score for meerca chase is 300-odd (with a super negg!) inspite of the fact that my stocks have qaurtered in a day, im happy


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:18 am 
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Just because I feel like adding a stupid comment:

They should multiply the amount of Neopoints you get from games by at least 5, and remove the cap.

There.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:27 am 
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It is economy you know, always the items most wanted are sold for the highest!

This is neopia's economy:

$ from games goes to $ for restock goes to $ for rich people. Where it sits and rots!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:30 am 
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Before I post my conclusions, I should post a few things before hand.

First off, before you accuse me of anything, I am NOT a very good restocker. On a pentium 2 300 mhz machine with 96mb ram (top of the line in 1997/1998), i simply get blown out of the water by younger people with faster computers, faster connections and faster fingers.

The reality is this. Lets say you take a kitchen quest. Different people have different values on kitchen quests. For a veteran such as myself with what most people here would consider a gigantic pet, kitchen quests are absolutely critical to me. They are virtually my ONLY way to train str and defense reliably at this point. The alternate for hitpoints is to spend 8 codestones (something i do almost daily).

So to me, even though my chances of gaining a hp, def, or str point are only 1/4, I will GLADLY spend 6k on a kitchen quest, and do every single one i can for under 10k without fail. I sometimes spend 12k or more if the situation is right.

Thus, that chocolate that only restocks 3 times per hour that the flotsam chef asks for alot is desirable to me, and ill pay 7000 where someone else is forced to take a pass.

Similarly, with the new ice cream coupons, there is a buzz. landing one is a boon worth about 100k at the minimum right now. There are several other alternate items one could receive that are also very valuable.

THus people are willing to gamble. They may not know the odds and perhaps even OVER-GAMBLE. All of the sudden that item that you only think is worth 3000 is worth 9000 to someone else. They feel they have a shot at getting rich.

Just like its worth it to keep buying scratchcards from the kiosks in hopes of eventually landing the big one, people will continue to assess in their own minds the average value of a snow quest, and do all quests cheaper than that imaginary value. This has created a buzz we havent seen in 2 years (when dbds were 9.4 icons and the snow faerie gave them out) I mean, would it be fair to the restocker to have to sell his item cheap so you could buy them en masse and keep trying to get those big coupons? THat would seem rediculous. TNT is GENERALLY (not always) pretty good about keeping the game in balance. Last time there was too much demand for those chocolates, they re-rigged the snow faerie to stop giving out rare mps and excellent weapons (retiring the sinsis sword and upping the dbd and bd rarity, then furhter DOWNGRADING the dbd upon realizing what had happened to the economy)



Really though, you i think are looking for an excuse to whine. And i only came in here because someone wanted me to point out what they perceived to be as your... well i cant really say the word here.

ANd i told them I wouldnt until i saw the post. I saw the post, and I have to agree with them.

Whats really baffling to me, is you claim the most "honorable" way to make np is thru games. Simply put, some people arent good at games. Some arent good at restocking, some arent good at auction-sniping. Im not good at ANY of these things, yet its plain as day that its still possible to make a considerable income.

ANd the reality is, it IS all about supply and demand. people want to be the next great big pet, or the next jazz)_invincible, or the next turmac owner or what have you. Since these things have PRESTIGE associated with them, you will have to EARN that prestige, and the way to do that is to know your way around the economy.

TO make a real life comparison, you are basically an unskilled worker, with a high school diploma, maybe less. You work as a construction worker. You hate your upperclass peers driving nicer cars than you and living in bigger houses. Your more upperclass peers (the white-collar workers lets say), do better than you, but they still arent at the top of the ladder. THe people who really do the best are those who have best knowledge of the economy and the guts to act on their convictions.

When taelia was ixnayed from the site for a while, choco and baked goods dropped like a rock. THis was a paradise for the hard core kquesters such as myself. When the war was over everyone more or less KNEW that taelia was coming back, heck the news announced an ice cream machine the day before it happened.

How many of you bought chocolates in anticipation of trying to get a ticket?

How many of you had the foresight to realize k quests were about to get alot more expensive, better buy the r80ish chocolates and ice foods while they were still reasonably priced?

How many of you had the courage to invest a considerable amount of money in this knowing you could profit quickly (supply and demand)?

How many of you invested nearly every single neopoint in your bank account?

How many of you went beyond that and sold other assets you were hoarding KNOWING that this was a bonzanza waiting to happen?

This was no group collusion. I think a ton of people all saw the writing on the wall. I wasnt buying to resell, but i bought about 150 chocolates for my own k quest consumption (so i could continue to do them after taelia came back ata fast pace to try and get my pet stronger)

I DIDNT have the courage to go to the last step. And sadly I only had 500k in my bank when i moved 450k of it in. But much like poker, to make money you must risk money when the odds are in your favor. It sounds like you dont have enough of a mind to realize this, and therefore you gripe about the restockers, when really, you only have yourself to blame.

I guess my conclusion is this, your lack of knowledge of the economy, masked behind some self-righteous view of the neopian world, is going to permanently hinder your progress of reaching your goals in this game, and again, dont blame the restockers, blame yourself.

edit: as a post script, over the last few days, TNT has caught on to the source of about 40-45% of my income, and made it undesirable to the pont where I must give it up. (now on a typical day my income is probably 1% freebies, 9% gambling games, 15% stockmarket, 15% "lucky events", such as stumbling upon a buyable khonsu today while looking for a different item, 10% restocking, 10% good item investing and 40% random other sources)

as you can see the changes to the employment agency were borderline catastrophic to me, especially as i spend over 100k per day on training alone, but I will find a way to replace that income. If you think about it, you can find a way to compensate for increased item prices. Instead of complaining about them


Slime Lord wrote:
I'm most glad you play games. I truely am. I don't like the people who ONLY restock. If you wish to consider your self for this topic a sub-type, do so.

And I do know the Neopian Economy isn't set just for me. This is not why I started this topic, even though I am expressing my personal oppion. I started this topic so people might see how much of an effect the prices they are setting are having on the people who only play games.

I know Restocking is hard. I know Autobuyers are out there. I know they are a decent portion of the ones who set prices, but it's everyone else who is following it that I'm having issues with.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:39 am 
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A few people here need to take Economics...that's all I'm going to say


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