Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:06 pm
sparkygoesforth wrote:The only anthro-pet that has made me feel uneasy is the latest Nimmo revamp - it looks too much like some lanky human with a frog head in some poses - the proportions are too similar. Otherwise I have no problem, it's down to how the users want to 'play' their pets - after all (apart from the Tombola guy) there are no human characters on the site, so how do the shopkeepers stock their shops without opposable thumbs? There is either a secret army of humans running Neopia when nobody is looking - or the pets are doing it themselves. To do that, they need human characteristics.
Says who. There are lots of ways, an ixi for example could run a shop. It does have this thing called a mouth that they could use to carry items. It could also have the help of more dextrous Neopet workers like scorchios or quiggles. It could simply have a trained petpet like a faellie, cyodrake, or mirgle help it do certain tasks. In Wicked, which is a wonderful book about the life of The Wicked Witch of the West, the wicked witch Elphaba was something like a secretary for her professor who happened to be a sentient goat. She took notes, dictation, and copied manuscripts for him. Just because he didn't have hands didn't mean he wasn't a very capable teacher.
Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:09 pm
but goats arent sentient, nor do they ahve the capibilitie.
ergo; antrhomorphism.
*proudly wanders off to be a domineering human with no regard for lesser species*
ergo; antrhomorphism.
*proudly wanders off to be a domineering human with no regard for lesser species*
Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:14 pm
Dur. I said in my first post that I have zero problems with Neopets being sentient. My problem is with their physical anthro style.
Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:17 pm
I think it would take a very long time for an ixi to run a shop using only it's mouth, or any other pet without thumbs come to that. Now I know the shops only stock every 8 minutes or so but even so! I don't think that's to let them fill up the shop using their mouths x)
Of course I doubt that that is what happens even more simply because they're not real
So sometimes they look more anthro and sometimes they look more animal like, I don't really care one way or the other. It allows everyone to see their pets the way they want to and while it would be nice to see a more 4 legged plot sometimes in the same vein as the Lion King for example, I'm not that fussed by ones like the last one where they stand on 2 legs. Captions should probably stick to four legged ones but only for the reason that more often than not their anthro style art is utter crud outside of plots. I don't like pets with though, Disney were able to pull of an extremely feminine Maid Marian fox without resorting to giving her a wonderbra 
And I'm really not keen on the way they always seem to portray female anthro characters as stick insects with a huge bust, that's not really a healthy thing for kids to see (even though they see it everywhere else).
But at the end of the day it's not real so I feel some artistic license is allowed. It certainly doesn't bother me when I see a wocky walking on two legs wearing clothes while my own one stands on four legs with no clothes. They're just cartoon animals after all
But maybe that's just me xD
Of course I doubt that that is what happens even more simply because they're not real
So sometimes they look more anthro and sometimes they look more animal like, I don't really care one way or the other. It allows everyone to see their pets the way they want to and while it would be nice to see a more 4 legged plot sometimes in the same vein as the Lion King for example, I'm not that fussed by ones like the last one where they stand on 2 legs. Captions should probably stick to four legged ones but only for the reason that more often than not their anthro style art is utter crud outside of plots. I don't like pets with though, Disney were able to pull of an extremely feminine Maid Marian fox without resorting to giving her a wonderbra And I'm really not keen on the way they always seem to portray female anthro characters as stick insects with a huge bust, that's not really a healthy thing for kids to see (even though they see it everywhere else).
But at the end of the day it's not real so I feel some artistic license is allowed. It certainly doesn't bother me when I see a wocky walking on two legs wearing clothes while my own one stands on four legs with no clothes. They're just cartoon animals after all
But maybe that's just me xD
Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:24 pm
Well it'd be impossible for a human to stock a shop every eight minutes, with about 50+ items appearing at the exact same second, 24-7 365 days a year without rest and have the time to haggle with each and every single restocker within about 6 seconds. I'm just talking about the fantasy canon of Neopets and not the technical parts of the site. I hope I've made that distinction clear. Without it there would be no plots or anything of the sort on Neopets. Scarblade simply would have been able to read the New Features to see what Kelpbeard and Talek were planning. 
Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:28 pm
Hehe, as was I - I was just pointing out that no matter how slow the shops restock I don't think it's down to the shopkeepers not having thumbs xD
After commenting on my wocky I remembered he's faerie so technically he is on two feet in the circle pose anyway, as is my yurble and my pteri-to-be-scorchio (who as a scorchio will still be on two legs). And my koi has no legs, so really I've got nothing to worry about there anyway!
After commenting on my wocky I remembered he's faerie so technically he is on two feet in the circle pose anyway, as is my yurble and my pteri-to-be-scorchio (who as a scorchio will still be on two legs). And my koi has no legs, so really I've got nothing to worry about there anyway!
Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:40 pm
I might get flamed for this, but I think the argument which revolves around considering oneself an owner the pet is flawed. The only non-appearance objection I see is how people feel that owning sentient pets would be "slavery," but that requires you to see the main role of players as a master over the neopets, which, to me, already seems wrong.
I don't like to use the term "owning", as it often doesn't really seem like we "own" them at all. There are some places and events where the pets seem to behave independently, and they're sentient. Roleplay-wise, I see it like the pets we "own" are really just ours to take care of until they become independent and want to leave (in reality, of course, they're ours forever).
And if they're already mentally anthro, why not let them be drawn physically anthro? Neopets are able to do many things which can't really be done without some departure from their feral forms.....(See other posters' arguments.)
Of course, if you just feel that the anthro Neopets look wrong/ugly/strange, there's no way anyone can argue with that, though consider whether it's because of the one artist's style or if you'd object to other styles like that of Bugs Bunny or the cartoon Robin Hood.
I don't like to use the term "owning", as it often doesn't really seem like we "own" them at all. There are some places and events where the pets seem to behave independently, and they're sentient. Roleplay-wise, I see it like the pets we "own" are really just ours to take care of until they become independent and want to leave (in reality, of course, they're ours forever).
And if they're already mentally anthro, why not let them be drawn physically anthro? Neopets are able to do many things which can't really be done without some departure from their feral forms.....(See other posters' arguments.)
Of course, if you just feel that the anthro Neopets look wrong/ugly/strange, there's no way anyone can argue with that, though consider whether it's because of the one artist's style or if you'd object to other styles like that of Bugs Bunny or the cartoon Robin Hood.
Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:59 pm
The thing about Robin Hood, though, is that he's not supposed to exist in the same universe as, say, the lions of The Lion King or the pets of Oliver and Company. He's basically a talking, upright-walking fox in a world of talking, upright-walking animals, with nary a human to be seen.
In Neopets, they're giving us animals who are basically like Robin Hood -- many of the Royals fit in this category -- and saying "here, you can own these." At the same time they're giving us animals who are more like little kitten Oliver or Lady and the Tramp -- sentinent animals who look and behave like real animals even if they can talk. (The only big difference between our basic Neopets and those animals is that our Neopets can speak to us, while those pets could only talk to other animals, not to humans.) This discrepancy between "normal" pets and anthro pets is what bugs me.
Like I said before, if it's a plot, fine. I think of the plots as taking place in a world like that of Disney's Robin Hood where humans don't exist, and instead animals (in this case, Neopets) play all the parts. But as for pets we can own -- that we're responsible for feeding and playing with and keeping healthy -- it's just creepy to have some human-looking little thing staring at me from my Quick Ref page.
In Neopets, they're giving us animals who are basically like Robin Hood -- many of the Royals fit in this category -- and saying "here, you can own these." At the same time they're giving us animals who are more like little kitten Oliver or Lady and the Tramp -- sentinent animals who look and behave like real animals even if they can talk. (The only big difference between our basic Neopets and those animals is that our Neopets can speak to us, while those pets could only talk to other animals, not to humans.) This discrepancy between "normal" pets and anthro pets is what bugs me.
Like I said before, if it's a plot, fine. I think of the plots as taking place in a world like that of Disney's Robin Hood where humans don't exist, and instead animals (in this case, Neopets) play all the parts. But as for pets we can own -- that we're responsible for feeding and playing with and keeping healthy -- it's just creepy to have some human-looking little thing staring at me from my Quick Ref page.
Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:42 am
Personally, I view my 'pets' not as pets, but as slightly-odd-looking companions and friends.
When I first started out, hearing about neopets, I assumed that my pets were to be pets, and nothing but. That changed the day I signed up though.. the first time I tried to feed the gorgeous eyrie I'd just created, because he talked to me, and thanked me for feeding him with words. I've never viewed my 'pets' as pets since.
I know they're just programmed to give automatic responses, but those responses denote that they're designed to be intelligent. My cat may purr, but even if I brought her to Coltzan's Shrine, she would probably never demand "good items out of this". My imagination has done the rest; each of my pets have personalities, and have grown with me as I've played for years on the site. I don't think I'm their owner, I think I'm their friend, though perhaps slightly on the parental side.
When I picture or draw my neopets, I do give them a degree of 'anthro' simply because I can't imagine doing or saying the things they do without being anthropomorphized.. emotionally or physically..
As for the neopets official art... I think they need to make up their minds about where they want to take this game. Whether the realize it or not, or for that matter, the players realize it, adding 'anatomically correct' drawings introduces 'realistic' aspects to the fantasy world, and, because of the realism, previously outlawed sexual overtones.
Is it hypocritical of them? It's hard to say; they probably don't even realize they're doing it.
I can't say whether that's good or bad. But I will say I'd be sad if my pets couldn't talk to me anymore...
When I first started out, hearing about neopets, I assumed that my pets were to be pets, and nothing but. That changed the day I signed up though.. the first time I tried to feed the gorgeous eyrie I'd just created, because he talked to me, and thanked me for feeding him with words. I've never viewed my 'pets' as pets since.
I know they're just programmed to give automatic responses, but those responses denote that they're designed to be intelligent. My cat may purr, but even if I brought her to Coltzan's Shrine, she would probably never demand "good items out of this". My imagination has done the rest; each of my pets have personalities, and have grown with me as I've played for years on the site. I don't think I'm their owner, I think I'm their friend, though perhaps slightly on the parental side.
When I picture or draw my neopets, I do give them a degree of 'anthro' simply because I can't imagine doing or saying the things they do without being anthropomorphized.. emotionally or physically..
As for the neopets official art... I think they need to make up their minds about where they want to take this game. Whether the realize it or not, or for that matter, the players realize it, adding 'anatomically correct' drawings introduces 'realistic' aspects to the fantasy world, and, because of the realism, previously outlawed sexual overtones.
Is it hypocritical of them? It's hard to say; they probably don't even realize they're doing it.
I can't say whether that's good or bad. But I will say I'd be sad if my pets couldn't talk to me anymore...
Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:57 am
Quahog wrote:As for the neopets official art... I think they need to make up their minds about where they want to take this game. Whether the realize it or not, or for that matter, the players realize it, adding 'anatomically correct' drawings introduces 'realistic' aspects to the fantasy world, and, because of the realism, previously outlawed sexual overtones.
We've had "sexy" faeries on the site for almost the entirety of its existence, and- depending on one's interpretation- the sexual overtones are unavoidable. Isca's cute, Kass has fangirls, meh... Sure, there's bound to be a sexual side to anthropomorphizing the pets, but not by default. Tons of doors are opened in terms of plot and character design by anthropomorphizing the characters, and I personally have never had a problem with having buth normal and humanized pets existing on the site side by side. Not literally, just that both art styles can easily co-exist.
Neopets has always had anthropomorphized characters to some extent:
So I don't think the site's really leaning in any direction. Meh.
By the by, points to whomever gets the sci-fi fandom reference in the barbeque caption.
-C
Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:05 am
And yet if we were to say 'sexy' or 'hot' we'd risk being frozen.. even if referring to the actual artwork as opposed to other users.. that's the only hypocritical part, I find..
This is now a four page topic; may or may not mean something large, but there's certainly something there to discuss, otherwise it would have fallen off the front page by now..
As for the faeries - they've always been humanoid to start with.
I *do* appreciate all the plot and artwork, and the creativeness that springs out of the artist mind, whether it's anthro, or not.
Edit: Also, I'd like to point out, in the Hannah plot, there was romance amongst the thieves - the shadowy marissa/galem/kanrik triangle. In the Kass - Merridell plot, there was a family of usuls: mother, father, daughter of all the same species. In the previous plot, Jeran (Lupe) and Lisha (Aisha) were brother and sister - does this mean there was adoption, or... what?
But neopets don't make baby neopets? They don't have relationships. Do they? Despite examples above, there are rules against pets dating - and I assume that is to keep sex out of the game. So why is it being added via plot artwork/storyline?
I don't normally nitpick. I can't say whether it's good, bad, or indifferent. Just an observation.
This is now a four page topic; may or may not mean something large, but there's certainly something there to discuss, otherwise it would have fallen off the front page by now..
As for the faeries - they've always been humanoid to start with.
I *do* appreciate all the plot and artwork, and the creativeness that springs out of the artist mind, whether it's anthro, or not.
Edit: Also, I'd like to point out, in the Hannah plot, there was romance amongst the thieves - the shadowy marissa/galem/kanrik triangle. In the Kass - Merridell plot, there was a family of usuls: mother, father, daughter of all the same species. In the previous plot, Jeran (Lupe) and Lisha (Aisha) were brother and sister - does this mean there was adoption, or... what?
But neopets don't make baby neopets? They don't have relationships. Do they? Despite examples above, there are rules against pets dating - and I assume that is to keep sex out of the game. So why is it being added via plot artwork/storyline?
I don't normally nitpick. I can't say whether it's good, bad, or indifferent. Just an observation.
Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:00 am
You've kinda just made a point for the other side, Shroomy.
Heh, sexy bar wenches? Good for the 16+ Neopets crowd, not so good for the 12 and under kids. Neopets needs to make up its mind which they want to cater to. Neopets seems to be leaning in the direction of a "child's site," yet they still stick in non-child-friendly things, such as the skinny, skanky faeries and adds for bank loans and airfare. Make up your mind which age group you want to cater to, please.
And honestly, who doesn't find *this* frightening?
And what's with the lack of male faeries? Are they afraid to break some sterotypes?
Ahem, getting back on subject, I don't mind when some of the pets go anthro, but I do mind when they have breasts, wigs, and makeup - that's taking it a little too far. Imagine a cute little pig. Easy. Imagine a pig talking and walking around, sometimes on two legs. Maybe with a hat and pants. Still cute, kinda like Babe. Now imagine a pig walking on two legs, wearing a dress, and sporting a wig, makeup and large breasts, talking to the farmer. Ack, there went my dinner 
Heh, sexy bar wenches? Good for the 16+ Neopets crowd, not so good for the 12 and under kids. Neopets needs to make up its mind which they want to cater to. Neopets seems to be leaning in the direction of a "child's site," yet they still stick in non-child-friendly things, such as the skinny, skanky faeries and adds for bank loans and airfare. Make up your mind which age group you want to cater to, please.
And honestly, who doesn't find *this* frightening?
And what's with the lack of male faeries? Are they afraid to break some sterotypes?
Ahem, getting back on subject, I don't mind when some of the pets go anthro, but I do mind when they have breasts, wigs, and makeup - that's taking it a little too far. Imagine a cute little pig. Easy. Imagine a pig talking and walking around, sometimes on two legs. Maybe with a hat and pants. Still cute, kinda like Babe. Now imagine a pig walking on two legs, wearing a dress, and sporting a wig, makeup and large breasts, talking to the farmer. Ack, there went my dinner
Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:31 am
Although Neopets is often listed as a children's site (especially in articles), we do try to make it interesting for people of all ages instead of "catering" to a particular group. Y'all are a testament to that fact, considering how varied the fan base is, and neopets responds to that with simpler things for younger kids and ads for bank loans for all the adults on the site.
This is a personal opinion, but I do not consider "sexy" to be a 16+ concept. I garnered a crush on Jake from Rescuers Down Under when I was four, for heaven's sake, and tons of young kids have seen Pirates of the Carribean, a film which has a number of sexual tones. I can see people having a problem with sexy anthropomorphic animals, as many find that creepy, but that's always going to be a matter of personal preference. The faeries, mind you, while not necessarily my cup of tea as I've always wanted to mix things up a bit in terms of their design, aren't skanky by default. Bratz are skanky by default- the faeries on Neopets aren't.
...Yeah, not all the faerie art is above par.
I personally cannot attest to the lack of male faeries or male humanoids in general on the site. *shrugs* As opposed to being "afraid to break some stereotypes," I'm going to point out taht figuring out a presentable way to feature male faeries without immediately stirring up controversy and inane gay jokes is difficult. Maybe in the future, I don't speak for the company as a whole.
Again, I don't see breasts as a particularly disturbing motif, so I've never had a problem seeing a hint of a chest on a female neopet. Where does one draw the line? Why is it alright to see an anthropomorphic cat such as Captain Amelia in Treasure Planet- a character with an abundance of hip, breast, and sex appeal- strut around and, heaven forbid, have anthro cat babies in a Disney film, and yet not with Neopets...?
And in terms of the faeries being skanky, well, there's always Tink.
-C
This is a personal opinion, but I do not consider "sexy" to be a 16+ concept. I garnered a crush on Jake from Rescuers Down Under when I was four, for heaven's sake, and tons of young kids have seen Pirates of the Carribean, a film which has a number of sexual tones. I can see people having a problem with sexy anthropomorphic animals, as many find that creepy, but that's always going to be a matter of personal preference. The faeries, mind you, while not necessarily my cup of tea as I've always wanted to mix things up a bit in terms of their design, aren't skanky by default. Bratz are skanky by default- the faeries on Neopets aren't.
...Yeah, not all the faerie art is above par.
I personally cannot attest to the lack of male faeries or male humanoids in general on the site. *shrugs* As opposed to being "afraid to break some stereotypes," I'm going to point out taht figuring out a presentable way to feature male faeries without immediately stirring up controversy and inane gay jokes is difficult. Maybe in the future, I don't speak for the company as a whole.
Again, I don't see breasts as a particularly disturbing motif, so I've never had a problem seeing a hint of a chest on a female neopet. Where does one draw the line? Why is it alright to see an anthropomorphic cat such as Captain Amelia in Treasure Planet- a character with an abundance of hip, breast, and sex appeal- strut around and, heaven forbid, have anthro cat babies in a Disney film, and yet not with Neopets...?
And in terms of the faeries being skanky, well, there's always Tink.
-C
Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:44 am
Becuase they're our pets, companions, and as someone else mentioned it's not anthro art or characters in general but what's right for our pets. In the example you just gave, that character is the equivalent of a human being. She's a animal looking alien that coexists alongside human beings. She's not subservient and if in a crazy bizzaro world where such beings did exist, she'd have the same rights and liberties as any other person. It sucks that my only real comparisons are pokemon and Digimon, but it's the total lack of distinction between anthro and normal Neopets and anthro Neopets completely replacing humans that bothers me. It's not something that wakes me in the night, but it's very hard for me to conceive of how something like a movie would work in the current trend they have for the "world" of Neopets. I exist to my pets, who all have personalities if only in my head, and quite simply it sucks that according to Neopets I exist only as some omnipotent guiding force and not as an actual person. Point me to any official Neopets canon that says humans exist and I'd grumpily relent...a little.
Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:57 am
Lorcanwolf wrote:Now imagine a pig walking on two legs, wearing a dress, and sporting a wig, makeup and large breasts, talking to the farmer. Ack, there went my dinner
Say Hello to Miss Piggy and you're basically leaning the argument to the Muppets now.
Anthropormorphics have been around since Disney and Warner Brothers took a punt and ran with it. It's basically a society all its own.
Neopets is a society all its own - it's a fantasy world - pets can walk on their hind legs, run shops, TALK, be heroes, be villains, master their trades, be thieves, run guilds, are animated, are written about...hells bells people, get over yourselves!
Anthro is NOT the argument here - you're basically asking why can't these pets be NORMAL. Normality is for reality. This is Fantasy. Learn the difference.
Come on, I'm not trying to start an argument here, but openly listen to yourselves - you're making Neopets's Fantasy Realm sound like the Real World (true, it's a mirror in some ways - economy, pet care, banking, etc); if pets could talk, be heroes and villains and basically run this world better than our current world leaders, I know I wouldn't say anything against it...
Face it - Neopia is run better than the Real World in some respects. Anthro or not.
EDIT:
One last thing to add - in my Neopets stories, I don't portray myself as a human, because I've had a backlash of feedback from my stories where people ask me "why be a human?"
I'm an Anthro in my stories about my pets and myself. Why? Tis only a natural reaction to being surrounded by sentient fantasy beings who still love me regardless of what the heck I look like, talk like and move like.
Last edited by Marinnai Kasaraki on Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.