Fri Dec 23, 2005 7:46 am
stampsyne wrote:One way to stop it: Lost desert plot style!
Everybody would have a SLIGHTLY different puzzle of the same type!
Has hideous flashbacks to the different exam mentality of calc teachers. I agree in principal, but not in practicality. The math ones would be best for this idea given random number generators and the like. Ponders why he has flashbacks and not foreshadows when he still has three more years of calc, including physics classes.
Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:29 am
stampsyne wrote:One way to stop it: Lost desert plot style!
Everybody would have a SLIGHTLY different puzzle of the same type!
I would think that is a bad idea looking at the working as a group aspect of the games. It works better to prevent cheating on larger scale events such as the LDP, but I would think it's a bit too complicated for something such as the LC or the MP.
Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:12 am
I love the help the few times I have known it though I wasnt in time -sad- but the help is always appreciated since I am dyslexic with numbers
lc
Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:32 pm
I think the majority of people here feel the same way. Small grops of people working together is fine, but at what point does a small group become a thundering herd? 3? 10? 100? Simply posting the answer on a chat board is just wrong,wrong,wrong. By the way, The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy says this week's answer is 42.
Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:42 pm
I personally don't like answer-sharing, since it basically means all you have to do is wait long enough and someone will tell you what to enter in the box. What I DON'T have a problem with is giving clues. Sometimes people get stuck, and a clue means that you have help, but still have to solve the puzzle yourself. I understand completely why TNT would be frustrated, they have to go to the trouble of making a puzzle every week, and then someone posts the answer (or really obvious clues) so people don't even have to bother solving it.
Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:11 pm
I don't much like the clues - I can usually (not always, especially the maths ones) but Usually solve the LC myself - and there's nothing more frustrating then 1)being on line when the LC is announced 2) working on it immediately 3) solving it like 45 minutes later and coming to check it on PPT and 4) seeing that 3 people posted clues that, taken individually, are not too much info but combined meant that the 40 lurkers have all gotten the answer before me.
It also annoys me when someone post a clue and someone else goes "I still don't get it" and then one posts an easier clue - look, you're not supposed to get every LC, thats why they're different styles - so people with different strengths can win. If you're good at it one week, GREAT! post and answer and get your prize- if you're not good the next week, sorry - take a guess and wait for the following week.
I suggest two solutions, at least on PPT (because we can't change everywhere...) First) No clues for the first hour - discussion is good but out and out clues aren't fair. At least give people the chance to work it out. and Second) Is there a way to make a specific board registered members only? It wouldn't cut down on all the lurkers but it could a least let us see how many people are there and make it a little more fair.
It also annoys me when someone post a clue and someone else goes "I still don't get it" and then one posts an easier clue - look, you're not supposed to get every LC, thats why they're different styles - so people with different strengths can win. If you're good at it one week, GREAT! post and answer and get your prize- if you're not good the next week, sorry - take a guess and wait for the following week.
I suggest two solutions, at least on PPT (because we can't change everywhere...) First) No clues for the first hour - discussion is good but out and out clues aren't fair. At least give people the chance to work it out. and Second) Is there a way to make a specific board registered members only? It wouldn't cut down on all the lurkers but it could a least let us see how many people are there and make it a little more fair.
Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:51 pm
gabriellaeve wrote:I suggest two solutions, at least on PPT (because we can't change everywhere...) First) No clues for the first hour - discussion is good but out and out clues aren't fair. At least give people the chance to work it out. and Second) Is there a way to make a specific board registered members only? It wouldn't cut down on all the lurkers but it could a least let us see how many people are there and make it a little more fair.
You can put on so many provisions on how to post, but you can't really enforce a rule like no posting a clue in the first hour. I as a member believe that is a bit too dictating and would likely leave if that was the case. Everyone should have an equal right to post a clue when they feel like sharing, it's a part of that sketchy teamwork aspect we've had on these boards since I've been on the forums for 3 years now.
Second of all, the suggestion that we restrict access to a board for games like the LC and MP has been brought up many times and the decision is that we will not restrict "lurking" access to any board (besides the usergroups.) PPT is an open community in all aspects. It won't matter, we'll get those "guests" who just sign up for that board and will hide their online status and no one will know they're on and looking at that thread.
Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:18 pm
As "Person B" in the first post's example, I have to say I think working in small groups is just fine. 
I probably would have missed out on the gold trophy if Person A hadn't helped. However, I HATE it when people post the answer (or very, very easy clues) all over the Neoboards. I like how PPT handles game threads -- everyone here is great about posting clues but not the actual answer. Sometimes I do think the clues given are too easy, though, or that too many people feel the need to give one. I think two clues in a thread is definitely enough.
But, yeah. I'm with everyone else. Small groups and clues = fine. People spamming the Neoboards with the answer so everyone can copy and paste it = definitely not fine.
I probably would have missed out on the gold trophy if Person A hadn't helped. However, I HATE it when people post the answer (or very, very easy clues) all over the Neoboards. I like how PPT handles game threads -- everyone here is great about posting clues but not the actual answer. Sometimes I do think the clues given are too easy, though, or that too many people feel the need to give one. I think two clues in a thread is definitely enough.
But, yeah. I'm with everyone else. Small groups and clues = fine. People spamming the Neoboards with the answer so everyone can copy and paste it = definitely not fine.
Sat Dec 24, 2005 12:22 am
I think the LC should only be held once every three or four weeks.
They should post three different LC riddles. A primary school level one, a secondary school level one and a college level one. You can only submit an answer to one of the three questions, your choice. Each 'rank' would have a 2,000,000 NP split and cookies for the first 250 correct answers, like the current LC.
It gives a little strategy to the game. Go with the easy answer and try to get in early, or if you see one of the answers being blabbed all over the board, you can avoid submitting an answer to that question unless the answer you see is wrong. Or, try to answer one of the really hard ones and risk being wrong.
They should post three different LC riddles. A primary school level one, a secondary school level one and a college level one. You can only submit an answer to one of the three questions, your choice. Each 'rank' would have a 2,000,000 NP split and cookies for the first 250 correct answers, like the current LC.
It gives a little strategy to the game. Go with the easy answer and try to get in early, or if you see one of the answers being blabbed all over the board, you can avoid submitting an answer to that question unless the answer you see is wrong. Or, try to answer one of the really hard ones and risk being wrong.
Sat Dec 24, 2005 1:53 am
I like your idea kess, could add a new and interesting strategy to the puzzle.
I absolutely enjoy the team aspect of solving these puzzles. As a matter of fact, working as a team on the Lost Desert Plot was awesome, both in hauling stones as well as brainstorming to solve the puzzles in the repository.
I also agree with Dolphin in that I don't enter the LC or the MP to get rich. I hope to be online when those puzzles are released and challenge myself to get the answer quickly. It is very rare that I submit answers after the fact, whether I see the answer posted on the boards or if someone tells me. It's just not fun.
While working, I do keep an eye on the neoboards and ppt for clues and I'll use them, why not. At this point I still feel like I'm part of the team. Once the answer gets blabbed outright, the challenge (and the fun) is over.
Finally, it's impossible to stop the spreading of the answer sooooooo TNT needs to motivate people to not share the answer. End of story. Maybe limit the number of winners?
I absolutely enjoy the team aspect of solving these puzzles. As a matter of fact, working as a team on the Lost Desert Plot was awesome, both in hauling stones as well as brainstorming to solve the puzzles in the repository.
I also agree with Dolphin in that I don't enter the LC or the MP to get rich. I hope to be online when those puzzles are released and challenge myself to get the answer quickly. It is very rare that I submit answers after the fact, whether I see the answer posted on the boards or if someone tells me. It's just not fun.
While working, I do keep an eye on the neoboards and ppt for clues and I'll use them, why not. At this point I still feel like I'm part of the team. Once the answer gets blabbed outright, the challenge (and the fun) is over.
Finally, it's impossible to stop the spreading of the answer sooooooo TNT needs to motivate people to not share the answer. End of story. Maybe limit the number of winners?
Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:14 am
jojoneo wrote:Finally, it's impossible to stop the spreading of the answer sooooooo TNT needs to motivate people to not share the answer. End of story. Maybe limit the number of winners?
Actually that's how it was before they switched to the current system.
There were a total of 500 winners. First 10 people who answered correctly would get a gold trophy, the prize (x2 in the case of Mystery Pic) and 5,000 Neopoints (I'm not sure if this was so in the case of the LC.) Second place would be a silver trophy, the prize and 500 Neopoints. Third place would be bronze trophy, the prize and 250 Neopoints. Everyone else got nothing (it was to the point in some cases that there were some TNT neomails saying that you didn't place that round although you did get it correct.)
I can see why after that they went the pot system where everyone who at least answered correctly got some Neopoints for their effort. I think most of us take it for granted that we do indeed get Neopoints even if we weren't fast enough for the prize. In comparing the two systems I feel there isn't really a way to make it "entirely fair" without hurting someone one way or another.