Freezing statistics
Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:52 pm
What ever happened to the benefit of the doubt? TNT does not believe in such things anymore. You WILL be frozen if there is anything at all they (or a freeze bot) think is suspicious, even if it was perfectly legal and did not hurt anybody. Here's how I see it anymore:
<pre>
Item % chance of getting frozen*
=================================================
Using a bot or program 99%
Cheating/Scamming 95%
Being cheated/scammed 94%
High score on a game 22%
Having multiple accounts 20%
Being a guild owner 15%
Strong Desire to make NP 8%
Posting on message boards 5%
*Being rich has an automatic 1% total regardless of the above
**Chance % are cumulative (i.e. if you do more than one, then add the % together for a total)
</pre>
What does everybody else think? Any revisements/additions in mind?
Anyway, the point is that couldn't TNT back-off a little on some stuff to prevent wrongful freezings in the first place. Pretty much anybody that doesn't have connections is guarenteed to be frozen eventually. To some degree, I think TNT want people to be frozen...what can you do but complain and get a new account...thus making their site membership data better so they can get more ads & money?
Feel free to comment.
-Ryan
<pre>
Item % chance of getting frozen*
=================================================
Using a bot or program 99%
Cheating/Scamming 95%
Being cheated/scammed 94%
High score on a game 22%
Having multiple accounts 20%
Being a guild owner 15%
Strong Desire to make NP 8%
Posting on message boards 5%
*Being rich has an automatic 1% total regardless of the above
**Chance % are cumulative (i.e. if you do more than one, then add the % together for a total)
</pre>
What does everybody else think? Any revisements/additions in mind?
Anyway, the point is that couldn't TNT back-off a little on some stuff to prevent wrongful freezings in the first place. Pretty much anybody that doesn't have connections is guarenteed to be frozen eventually. To some degree, I think TNT want people to be frozen...what can you do but complain and get a new account...thus making their site membership data better so they can get more ads & money?
Feel free to comment.
-Ryan
Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:01 pm
I know they freeze a lot but to be fair.. a lot of the time it's warranted, and I'm getting a bit fed up with people going on about the unfairness of TNT all the time. The vast majority of the time, there is a reason for the freezing, despite people's protests of innocence. Either they don't realise what they did or they don't want to admit to it. I even saw someone on here a bit ago saying "Oh but that doesn't count because everyone abused that glitch!". Dear me.
I was frozen, and I was frozen for a good reason. TNT were very reasonable though and returned my account because the reason they froze me, while perfectly valid, was not my fault. I'm really fed up of hearing "blah blah TNT freezes all the time for everything" type rants because what's the point? If you object to their freezing policy, which I accept is at times flawed or unfair, you have the option to leave.
Listing a pretty unfounded list of freezing probabilities, based I presume on your own guesswork and cynicism rather than any statistical analysis of the number of accounts who are, for instance, guild leaders and frozen, is in my opinion pointless and unnecessary.
Apologies for ranting - I just think people are a bit harsh on the freezing staff these days. They have a tough job :/
I was frozen, and I was frozen for a good reason. TNT were very reasonable though and returned my account because the reason they froze me, while perfectly valid, was not my fault. I'm really fed up of hearing "blah blah TNT freezes all the time for everything" type rants because what's the point? If you object to their freezing policy, which I accept is at times flawed or unfair, you have the option to leave.
Listing a pretty unfounded list of freezing probabilities, based I presume on your own guesswork and cynicism rather than any statistical analysis of the number of accounts who are, for instance, guild leaders and frozen, is in my opinion pointless and unnecessary.
Apologies for ranting - I just think people are a bit harsh on the freezing staff these days. They have a tough job :/
Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:09 pm
HollyPop wrote:Listing a pretty unfounded list of freezing probabilities, based I presume on your own guesswork and cynicism rather than any statistical analysis of the number of accounts who are, for instance, guild leaders and frozen, is in my opinion pointless and unnecessary.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
How in Neopia did you manage to compile such a "percentage chart"? I am not disputing the fact that unfair freezings do happen, but displaying a chart like this, while amusing, is not an accurate representation of the number of unfair freezings which occur.
Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:15 pm
Numbers, numbers, numbers. I can't seem to find the numbers. 
This all seems very interesting and all, it wouldn't exactly surprise me if it were actually through. But how did you end up with these percentages?
This all seems very interesting and all, it wouldn't exactly surprise me if it were actually through. But how did you end up with these percentages?
Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:16 pm
Yes, I am harsh, but I think they deserve it. TNT has a hard job freezing the correct people, but that's no excuse for doing a poor job? Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? With Neopets, you're accused, found guilty, and are sentanced by a single person (or machine!) without any input. The chances of getting unfrozen anymore are very slim to none. That's not "guesswork"...that's fact. Even innocent people that get frozen (and it happens very often despite what many people say) never even receive a human response to their pleas to ber unfrozen.
Also, those statistics in my table are "guesswork", but it's a owrk in progress. It's not be perfectly accurate. It's to let people know a general idea of how likely people are to get frozen. If you do something against their rules, you are almost certain to be frozen. If you do stuff not against their rules but stand out, you are more likely to be frozen than somebody that just sits by and does nothing. For instance, being a guild leader of a large guild can attact attention. If something starts to look funny, TNT is likely to freeze the guild owner out of precaution. I know a number of people that have been frozen this way.
Just to note, I was personally frozen over a year ago (probably more now) and still have received no response to why I was frozen. If you try to log into my account (geowrian), it tells me that the system doesn't know why I was frozen and to contact the frozen department. Doesn't do much good when the frozen department doesn't even respond. I never cheated anybody, I was a guild owner of a very wonderful guild that strongly encouraged obeying the Neopets rules. I never used, nor know of any cheat programs, used any exploit/bug, discussed anything on the chat boards (ever!), and did everything else according to the Neopets rules. You don't have to believe me, but I know from experience that TNT freezes innocent people with no real justification and you have little chances of ever getting the account back.
LOL the numbers are not exact. I didn't mean for it to seem that way. It's a general idea based on my own observations and other people's accounts/observations. IF you disagree with me on any of them, let me know. The way I see it now, the current table looks accurate, but that can change.
Also, those statistics in my table are "guesswork", but it's a owrk in progress. It's not be perfectly accurate. It's to let people know a general idea of how likely people are to get frozen. If you do something against their rules, you are almost certain to be frozen. If you do stuff not against their rules but stand out, you are more likely to be frozen than somebody that just sits by and does nothing. For instance, being a guild leader of a large guild can attact attention. If something starts to look funny, TNT is likely to freeze the guild owner out of precaution. I know a number of people that have been frozen this way.
Just to note, I was personally frozen over a year ago (probably more now) and still have received no response to why I was frozen. If you try to log into my account (geowrian), it tells me that the system doesn't know why I was frozen and to contact the frozen department. Doesn't do much good when the frozen department doesn't even respond. I never cheated anybody, I was a guild owner of a very wonderful guild that strongly encouraged obeying the Neopets rules. I never used, nor know of any cheat programs, used any exploit/bug, discussed anything on the chat boards (ever!), and did everything else according to the Neopets rules. You don't have to believe me, but I know from experience that TNT freezes innocent people with no real justification and you have little chances of ever getting the account back.
LOL the numbers are not exact. I didn't mean for it to seem that way. It's a general idea based on my own observations and other people's accounts/observations. IF you disagree with me on any of them, let me know. The way I see it now, the current table looks accurate, but that can change.
Stijn wrote:Numbers, numbers, numbers. I can't seem to find the numbers.
This all seems very interesting and all, it wouldn't exactly surprise me if it were actually through. But how did you end up with these percentages?
Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:31 pm
Yes some innocent people get frozen but alot of people that get iced have actually done something wrong. I would estimate that the vast majority are guilty.
Im tired of the messages on the neopets boards saying "OMG the neopets keep freezing me!! They have frozen 5 of my accounts......unfairly." Seriously why would 5 different accounts be frozen for no reason? These people are not going to admit that they have been scamming/cheating/spamming/abusing glitches etc they want sympathy and free items. So i generally take it with a pinch of salt. Not to say that I dont believe that there are unfair freezings, just not as many as people would have you believe!
About your account, have you tried emailing staff members directly with details of your account, people on here have tried that before and found that they get a faster response than with the black hole support forms?
Im tired of the messages on the neopets boards saying "OMG the neopets keep freezing me!! They have frozen 5 of my accounts......unfairly." Seriously why would 5 different accounts be frozen for no reason? These people are not going to admit that they have been scamming/cheating/spamming/abusing glitches etc they want sympathy and free items. So i generally take it with a pinch of salt. Not to say that I dont believe that there are unfair freezings, just not as many as people would have you believe!
About your account, have you tried emailing staff members directly with details of your account, people on here have tried that before and found that they get a faster response than with the black hole support forms?
Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:44 pm
I agree that most people that get frozen deserve to be frozen (look at the top 2 items in the chart). However, I do beleive that unfair freezings happen far too often. What's "far too often"? Well, you can't realistically expect perfection but by the number of people that I know that were frozen wrongfully, it's already too many. What excuse can possibly be valid for accusing and punishing somebody that did nothing without any reason? When is it ever tolerable for a single innocent person to be frozen?
btw, thanks for the info on contacting the staff via email directly. I contacted 6 members of the staff directly (2 per month), but to not a single response. I followed the "guidelines" prescribed on pinkpt for having your account unfrozen, and was very polite and such, but it accomplished nothing. Thanks very much for the advice though. However, neopets has a policy of not doing anything with people that have been frozen for at least a year.
btw, thanks for the info on contacting the staff via email directly. I contacted 6 members of the staff directly (2 per month), but to not a single response. I followed the "guidelines" prescribed on pinkpt for having your account unfrozen, and was very polite and such, but it accomplished nothing. Thanks very much for the advice though. However, neopets has a policy of not doing anything with people that have been frozen for at least a year.
xjox wrote:Yes some innocent people get frozen but alot of people that get iced have actually done something wrong. I would estimate that the vast majority are guilty.
Im tired of the messages on the neopets boards saying "OMG the neopets keep freezing me!! They have frozen 5 of my accounts......unfairly." Seriously why would 5 different accounts be frozen for no reason? These people are not going to admit that they have been scamming/cheating/spamming/abusing glitches etc they want sympathy and free items. So i generally take it with a pinch of salt. Not to say that I dont believe that there are unfair freezings, just not as many as people would have you believe!
About your account, have you tried emailing staff members directly with details of your account, people on here have tried that before and found that they get a faster response than with the black hole support forms?
Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:54 pm
Hmm... according to this, I should have been frozen several times over by now. Heck, most top-scorers would have been. Perhaps you should lower some of the values.
It's either not freezing people at all or freezing some innocent people.
When is it ever tolerable for a single innocent person to be frozen?
It's either not freezing people at all or freezing some innocent people.
Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:01 pm
geowrian wrote:I agree that most people that get frozen deserve to be frozen (look at the top 2 items in the chart). However, I do beleive that unfair freezings happen far too often. What's "far too often"? Well, you can't realistically expect perfection but by the number of people that I know that were frozen wrongfully, it's already too many. What excuse can possibly be valid for accusing and punishing somebody that did nothing without any reason? When is it ever tolerable for a single innocent person to be frozen?
btw, thanks for the info on contacting the staff via email directly. I contacted 6 members of the staff directly (2 per month), but to not a single response. I followed the "guidelines" prescribed on pinkpt for having your account unfrozen, and was very polite and such, but it accomplished nothing. Thanks very much for the advice though. However, neopets has a policy of not doing anything with people that have been frozen for at least a year.
I agree that its unfair for innocent people to get frozen but on a site where you can report people for any wrong doings its always going to happen where someone reports someone else simply because they are jealous. These reports go through to staff (not enough of them in my opinion) and you have to account for human error because at the end of the day staff cannot be everywhere at everytime and unfortunately do rely on reports far too often.
Sadly where ever you have a popular website such as neopets there will always be nasty people who either
a) Cheat etc
or
b) Make false reports
Unfortunately this makes it very difficult for innocent people to get their accounts back or even (as in your case) get an explanation to why their accounts were frozen in the first place. But I do think that most people who really were unfairly frozen get their accounts back, just a few that slip through the net so to speak. But, again I have to say that the staff are human beings and so are subject to the same flaws that we are.
The only alternative I could see is scrapping the freezings altogether but then neopets would be over run by scammers/cheaters who would suffer no consequences.
Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:11 pm
To err is human, to forgive divine.
The staff are humans too. Given the amount of users on their net, it's not surprising they have Tons of workload. With false reports and tons of unfrozen forms, it will take time to sift through them. I agree they have some flaws, but so do I. They are just trying their best to keep neopets safe, give them some credits.
I was also frozen wrongfully for allegedly using autobuyer, but they return my account after i mailed them directly. That is after I waited a month for their reply after i filled in the frozen forms. The forms only allowed 300 charcters (not words), it's not even enough for me to write a paragraph.
Getting back a frozen account is a battle of patience.
The staff are humans too. Given the amount of users on their net, it's not surprising they have Tons of workload. With false reports and tons of unfrozen forms, it will take time to sift through them. I agree they have some flaws, but so do I. They are just trying their best to keep neopets safe, give them some credits.
I was also frozen wrongfully for allegedly using autobuyer, but they return my account after i mailed them directly. That is after I waited a month for their reply after i filled in the frozen forms. The forms only allowed 300 charcters (not words), it's not even enough for me to write a paragraph.
Getting back a frozen account is a battle of patience.
Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:33 pm
Or, maybe, shock horror, they could alter the system! Like, creating temporary bans! Omgosh! Now wouldn't that just be totally shocking.
Then, people who were wrongly frozen will just wait until they were unfrozen! Someone who cheated deliberately will just make a new account (like they do now). If the ban was about 2 months, true players would come back, and cheaters wouldnt.
But no, tnt changing anything for the better? never.
Then, people who were wrongly frozen will just wait until they were unfrozen! Someone who cheated deliberately will just make a new account (like they do now). If the ban was about 2 months, true players would come back, and cheaters wouldnt.
But no, tnt changing anything for the better? never.
Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:32 pm
I would love to see "You are banned from the site for two months for spamming people's neomail. I hope you learn your lesson!" message sent out as a deterant.
And they could post it on the person's USER LOOKUP
user ISPAMMEDEVERYBODY is banned from Neopets for TWO MONTHS for spamming. Maybe they will learn their lesson!
Seriously, I think it would be effective.
And they could post it on the person's USER LOOKUP
user ISPAMMEDEVERYBODY is banned from Neopets for TWO MONTHS for spamming. Maybe they will learn their lesson!
Seriously, I think it would be effective.
Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:45 pm
But if you banned everybody for 2 months then the really innocent people would have to wait 2 months to play again and would either create a new account (and run the risk of being frozen for having multiple accounts) or be stuck for 2 months without playing neo. And really nasty people would be back in 2 months, say they scammed people for items or np they would get those back in 2 months, which is hardly fair for the victims of the scam.
Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:00 pm
xjox wrote:But if you banned everybody for 2 months then the really innocent people would have to wait 2 months to play again and would either create a new account (and run the risk of being frozen for having multiple accounts) or be stuck for 2 months without playing neo. And really nasty people would be back in 2 months, say they scammed people for items or np they would get those back in 2 months, which is hardly fair for the victims of the scam.
Who said they would get rid of perm freezing? That would be exteremly horrible... far worse than any bot glitches.
Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:07 pm
How about freezing after repeat violations. Spamming is a small offense. Easily proven too. Instant freezing for scamming. I would rather be banned for a week or a month, while innocent, than having my account gone forever!
Also, PEER COURT would be a fun way to judge those MANY pleas to be unfrozen. No neostaff needed. Who wouldn't want to get a neomail saying "You have been called to service as a jury member for NEOcourt. Please report to the court room now."
Ok, that woudl probably work as well. Still funny.
Also, PEER COURT would be a fun way to judge those MANY pleas to be unfrozen. No neostaff needed. Who wouldn't want to get a neomail saying "You have been called to service as a jury member for NEOcourt. Please report to the court room now."
Ok, that woudl probably work as well. Still funny.