Oh god, we are incredibly drama-prone… remember, the majority of the users are from 10-16… the average age being about 13, I would guess.

“if it was stated that access or denying access is nothing personal, just objective, then perhaps it would lesson the negative impact?”

Nope. That would do absolutely nothing. That much I can guarantee
There are a few oekakis that do that… the main one being SRO I think. But… a lot of people don’t like them for that, and a lot of people only join because it’s basically the main oekaki community out there. I personally haven’t, just because of the huge amount of traffic.

I think that… I think it is ponju oekaki.. I could be wrong though, I think they have an advanced, but once again they’re not as close-knit, and also prone to drama. One of the main reasons I like PPT so much is because we’re so close-knit, and although we’re fairly big, it doesn’t feel commercial in any way. It feels more community-like. I’ve joined many other oekakis but this one remains my favorite so far, and has been for almost 3 years. I know I don’t have much say in this, but changing everything to make it “better” isn’t something I’d create a fan club about. But, that’s not my place to say, it’s not my site.

The thing about a sketch oekaki is, if you can go to either sketch or normal, I’d honestly want to stick with normal so that more experienced artists are there and you can improve while sticking around them. It would, of course, filter out all the “newbies” who are first trying, but if you are already in the oekaki now, why would you want to step down? If you’re asked to go to the sketch oekaki, I think that’s sort of like being “demonted” rather than being rejected into the advanced, which is just “not being promoted.” Of course, the timer can help too, but there are all sorts of ways around it, honestly. I still think a sketch oekaki is a good idea, though, but I don’t think it would solve all of our problems.

If we do get an advanced oekaki, then I think we should put some good rules there and forewarn people that we aren’t leaving them out, etc, and make everyone try out, rather than hand picking them. I also think we should have more than one person sort of “judge” whether to be in or not, because some people have different tastes, and it wouldn’t be fair if someone was unconsciously biased in judging. They should each give a good, specific reason, but not in an insulting way. The people in the advanced oekaki should still go to the normal and at least comment there, and the normal people comment the advanced, to relieve the tension.

I’m actually indifferent whether we have an advanced oekaki or not, but I’m guessing it would help a lot of problems. Dramas have already taken place, and I really think it’s time people start maturing.

Actually, I like BA’s idea of a sketch oekaki. Or one with less requirements such as the time limit being shorter. And maybe put a little more requirements for the Normal board? Make it like an intermediate board , I guess.

But I do like the idea of an advanced oekaki, or at least more advanced than the one right now. Maybe have an audition or try-out like SROA or something. I know there are a LOT of members of the PPTO that could probably qualify to an advanced board, and also there would still be a bunch that could practice on the regular board, so there’s an about equal amount between each. Less bumping, but there is not much separation between how many people get to go to the advanced

I like BA’s idea. It’s true, our oekaki is extrememly drama prone, seeming to have at least one flare up a month and other members ranting against other members. A raised time limit and a sketch oekaki might smooth things down a bit, but an Advanced oekaki would mean that those not accepted there would have even more flare ups about how they were pushed away by advanced snobs or somehting like that.
Two oekakis would help even out the boards a little, I can say that I’m tired of having my work bumped to the third page just because I’m in a different time zone and therefore people can’t recognize me and my art. If we lessen the member count by making a sketch board that would be great, members wouldn’t have to be banned for doodling something that is undertimed on the main board.
But yeah, tryouts and our community wouldn’t mix, I can imagine that rejection would result in permanent PPTO leavers D:
so there’s my two cents ~Mokona

hmm. I was actually hoping at first that this advanced oekaki would open. But after reading BA’s post, maybe it isn’t such a good idea.. I’m not entirely understanding what a ’sketch oekaki’ means, but um, maybe we should open something like that, other than an advanced oekaki. Maybe we should open a ‘help’ oekaki? You could give everyone animation access on that board, so that we could help each other out and show each other how to do special effects and such, or to show what steps to draw something in..?
or not it sounds interesting and stupid at the same time, doesn’t it? xD

Hey, I’m glad my idea caught on
“If you’re asked to go to the sketch oekaki, I think that’s sort of like being “demonted” rather than being rejected into the advanced, which is just “not being promoted.”

That’s not really what I was asking. It’s not a segregated board, it’s just where people can spam more.

“A sketch oekaki is a good idea except for the fact that some people are going to think that they are good enough for the normal, and start spamming 31 minute pictures on the oekaki that they left on retouch. So that is a bad reason about sketch.”

Once again, it isn’t to segregate the bad artists from the good ones, it is just to enforce effort. I don’t think people would leave it on for 31 minutes, that’d be stupid. Who would wait?

So it’s not like we’re going to say “You suck, go draw on the sketch board,” it’d be more like “You’re hardly putting any time in at all, please work harder or use the sketch board designed specifically for those purposes. And I agree with the actual enforcing of the time limit (so far I’m thinking 30 minutes… your opinions?)… like.. 1 or 2 minutes off isn’t a huge deal, but otherwise I think it should be pretty strict.

Also, reserving the main board for art is an excellent idea.

After reading what BA said, I get it now c: I think it’s a good idea to have a board for doodling and such and another board for art.

I’m for another board for doodling. But if people really want an advanced board for some other reason, I think we should definitely wait.

Oh yes, I didn’t add this in before, but regardless of whether we’re having more oekakis or not, I think we should have more admins and enforce the rules more closely.

I like the idea of the sketch oekaki, myself.
It sounds like it would be ok for those venting pictures, and the experimenting with ShiPainter and/or new features that may be added to the oekaki later.

It would also enable users to just doodle and try to relieve artists block, or just get used to oekaki’ing.

Of course, we should also keep the main oekaki open to all users, and sever the whole ‘better artist’ thing that goes on with a lot of boards with the Advanced and Beginner oekaki.

and increasing the time limit sounds good too, but only because a lot of my pictures take more than 30 minutes. (But that’s what happens to teenagers with short attention spans and clumsy mouse skills.)

i think both are a good idea, but i got to go.

On one hand I like the idea of an advanced oekaki, mainly because of the stream of spam and quick drawings that have been taking place at PPT. It’s a bit frusterating when theres like, two efforted pictures on the page and the rest are a bunch of airbrush squiggles that the person tries to say is ‘a background’ when it doesn’t even look like THAT.
On the other hand, I see the points that many are making about the drama that would come along with an advanced oekaki. So all in all I’d say I wouldn’t be too excited about it.
Now the sketch oekaki idea, sounds good. I think it would keep the quick doodles down to a minimum on PPT and no ones feelings would be hurt either.

I don’t like the idea of an advance oekaki. The idea of being seperated from the other members, and not being able to draw with them isn’t pleasant..especially if it were handpicked members.(I wasn’t here for the first Advanced Oekaki, but it doesn’t sound very awesome.) Maybe if there’s an advance oekaki, then it can work like Suta Raito’s. But hopefully there will be no Advanced Oekaki and just a sketch oekaki.

I think an advanced oekaki would be great. And I like Kym’s idea, for the advanced board to be for those who audition and draw only stuff that is worked very hard on and that you don’t want bumped down so quickly.

We could minimize the actual fact that it’s really separated.. Let everyone comment on both board but if you aren’t accepted, you can’t draw? And definately NO handpicking people, because that’s really mean and well.. it’s a personal thing if one person picks the ones who get to draw on the Advanced board.

Or we could get a sketch oekaki, or some kind of beginner oekaki. Then raise the time limit of the normal board a little bit (i think I agree on 30 minutes.). Maybe enforce the time limit rule a lot more… I dunno.

But having a .. “lower level” board such as beginner or sketch… Won’t it flare up even more problems? I mean, it’d be a bit demeaning, especially to the younger users (even though I am young, lol) to be told that they should go to a lower levelled board because their art doesn’t look like it took effort. And they’d think that they weren’t good enough, and then DRAMA! :/

The sketch board is… probably the best thing to make, but either way, SOMEONE is gonna get angry about something. The problem is that they can’t deal with the fact that maybe sometimes you should practice more… So I guess its Kym’s choice anyway, lol.

There was some awful grammar in that paragraph there, apologies.

“They take fricken’ 11 minutes a lot of them and then we have to delete them (I hate deleting pictures).”

I mean, what the heck is that, anyway? Gosh, learn to speak English.

Oh man, don’t bump up the time! I like drawing fast. D:

You know, in 20 minutes some people with crappy ball mice and no drawing skills can produce something of lesser quality than a skilled tablet user can put out in five minutes.

I’m all for a practice board, but I don’t believe that time should be the determining factor for whether stuff gets to stay or not. Still I know if it’s up to admin judjment of quality there are going to be a lot of unhappy artists.

As far as the advanced oekaki thing goes, perhaps for now someone could be appointed to oversee uploads of user’s advanced arts to the main oekaki instead? It seems comment greedy but honestly I don’t want to spend four hours drawing something on this board only to have five people ever see it. If we could draw it elsewhere, and also show it here, I think that would be nice for a few people (unfortunately I don’t have a second oekaki, cept my own and that’s barely alive :P). Ahh, I don’t know.

I know my main beef a few years ago was that I was being judged on quality, and for some reason my art would get deleted when other’s art (of lesser time spent and quality in my eyes at the time) would stay. (It only really happened twice at two different boards in my whole drawing career… yeah, I got taken off the Main Hall after a few days. I’m not bitter. Hehe. :D) So yeah, that would be a big danger.

So I don’t know. Things are good, and things are bad. And if this is a major shaping time for PPT, carving it into something is going to take cutting. So I hope ya’lls plan and impliment those plans carefully, that’s all I guess.

The only thing about the sketch oekaki is I’m thinking that people who don’t think they are, well, spamming, and sort of overrate their pictures might not post there. I mean, I know that “back in the day,” I used to think my pictures were worked really hard on but it actually took like 20 minutes (it didn’t look very pretty either, haha).

I’ve chat with other members, and they seemed to think a lot of good artists just go not just because of the amount of spam, but the amount of lesser quality pictures. Like, for example, if a less experienced artist worked extremely hard on one picture (let’s say 3 hours, which is 180 minutes) but it ended up lesser quality anyway, it’s definitely unfair to delete their picture. I’m guessing there are other reasons why people want an advanced board besides the spam.

I’m still against it because of all the crapload of drama that will take place like last time (harhar, and seeing the oekaki now to then it seems even more likely that people will explode). I was chatting with others about this as well and I guess a way to sort of solve the handpicking problem is if we had more admins, then people can “try out” and then those admins can choose so it’s less.. “handpicky.” That is, if we ever did open up an advanced oekaki. We can’t have as many opinions, but at least good admins who know their stuff will be able to be fair.

But I really have to say, if we’re talking about advanced people coming like people on the SROA boards, our standards will definitely be lower anyways so I don’t think it will make TOO much of a difference. Besides, there is no way to avoid the drama, unless everyone takes an oath that they will not be upset no matter what or something like that, rofl. I guess people do have to really start maturing though -I mean, the drama prone part might also be why “more experienced” drawers aren’t hot on joining the oekaki.

I still think it’s a good idea to have a practice board and all as I agreed with Kisa when we were chatting. c:

But yes please more admins. I’m not really concerned about more boards as much as this. When I’m talking about new admins, I’m saying admins that are active (in both pictures AND comments; I see lots of people who hardly make an effort to comment on deserved pictures), have good art skills, get along with everyone, and have.. matured, if you might say, and really know how things go around in here.

Agreed. I can think of a handful of people whom I would choose… we’ll discuss that, Gfaerie and I have discussed it before, actually, even before all of this came up. Sorta weird, eh?

If I can be honest here, I think it’d give people the feeling of being left out even more than we already do.

I mean, think about it. I’ve been here longer than you can count on your fingers and toes in months, and I’ve been steadily improving to the point where I’m satisfied and feel like I have a very individual style that I like very much. I’ve been trying for more fingers than you can count on one hand in months to gain access to animation. Month after month I’ve sent in my application, month after month I’ve watched people who I felt weren’t as dedicated/good/hard-working as I was gain access, and month after month I’ve still been rejected. Out of the group of people seeming very active at PPTO, I’m the only one left without anim rights.

Opening up an advanced oekaki just adds to this feeling. If I’m not good enough to earn the anim rights that everyone who hasn’t been here as long as I have has earned, what’s that going to do to my self-esteem? It’s not just me, either. Several other people would be quite honestly hurt by not being accepted. It’s not that anyone would take it personally, it’s that the feeling of not being good enough for something exclusive just hurts. There’s no way around hurting people.

I think we should leave things the way they are, or perhaps open up a sketch oekaki for people to practice on and welcome beginning/spammy art. But don’t segregate people based on skill more than we already do. Being as drama-prone as we are, it’s just not a good idea.

Now you all know why I considered leaving (see paragraph two). I didn’t say anything about that part of it because it seems silly and stupid or whatever, but when you’re held back from something like that for “not being good enough” at something you truly love, something is seriously wrong.
~CPK

Okay, I read what Teina said, and of course she made good points…
So yeah, a bunch of tablet users can scribble out some awesome stuff ( I can’t, what with my 6×4.5 one ;-;) But, on the rules it already said if it’s good it can be under, and so this shouldn’t be too much of a problem. It’s already on the rules Uhhhh.
So I don’t have much else to say but what BA keeps saying. We aren’t making levels with a sketch board. Essentially it’s a practice/spam/doodle board. Don’t go there if you wanna be recognized, you’ll be bumped down. Use it for vents, whatever. It is the trashcan of oekaki life!! (Some how I’m sure that comment didn’t work out quite the way I wanted it too >>;) If you want some helpful comments on your art, use the main one, I guess.
And Mokona exits again…

I’ve been around on oekaki boards for many years. Several of the sites I have been a part of have had seperate boards according to skill. What first drew me to PinkPPT was that there was no separation, but as time goes on (and after a prolonged abscence from the board) it becomes more clear that perhaps that is the best option. Audtitions sounds like the best way to manage who will be drawing on the board, and as soon as they are open I hope to try out myself.

As for the staff applications, please let us know as soon as possible. I always wanted to be helpful to gfaerie in any way I could, but was never allowed to ask to be a moderator. Good idea, appropriate timing. +++

I think that would be awsome. If everyone was allowed to join o you had to be good at one thing. Sure.